Συζήτηση μεταγραφής:The New Testament in the original Greek - 1881.djvu

Notation and Style Guide

For the editor's text markup used in this edition, see Page:The New Testament in the original Greek - 1881.djvu/96 and subsequent pages. In particular, the less common characters used are as follows:

• ⸆ RAISED INTERPOLATION MARKER (U+2E06)
• ⸡ RIGHT VERTICAL BAR WITH QUILL (U+2E21)
• ⸠ LEFT VERTICAL BAR WITH QUILL (U+2E20)
• ⸢ TOP LEFT HALF BRACKET (U+2E22)
• ⸣ TOP RIGHT HALF BRACKET (U+2E23)
• ⟦ MATHEMATICAL LEFT WHITE SQUARE BRACKET (U+27E6)
• ⟧ MATHEMATICAL RIGHT WHITE SQUARE BRACKET (U+27E7)

For this transcription project, please use the following formatting conventions:

• Quotations are centered with {{block center}} and formatted with small caps {{sc}} (example)
• Verse numbers are moved inline and are formatted with {{κ}} (example)
• Margin notes are displayed using {{right sidenote}} and related templates: see en:Template:Sidenotes begin/doc for documentation. Note: in the transcription, margin notes are always to the right, even though in the original scan they are on the left on verso pages. (example)

Additional standards for formatting conventions should be added and discussed below. Beleg Tâl (συζήτηση) 14:57, 16 Ιανουαρίου 2019 (UTC)

Verse numbers? Someone has started using {{Εδάφιο|1|6|}} on the first text page Σελίδα:The New Testament in the original Greek - 1881.djvu/101 Does that seem a reasonable method for doing the verse numbers? Shenme (συζήτηση) 04:35, 14 Οκτωβρίου 2021 (UTC)

Neither {{κ}} nor {{Εδάφιο|1|6|}} have any documentation that I can find. But {{Εδάφιο|1|6|}} appears to be a based on {{Verse|1|6|}} on the English Wikisource, which has some documentation and the promise of navigational functionality. {{κ}} is categorized as arithmetical, but I don't know why it would be or whether that's a mistake. I could go either way, though, as long as the functionality is the same. A kappa is certainly shorter. Arbitan (συζήτηση) 16:23, 5 Ιουλίου 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I've been reading up on templates, which I probably should have done before replying to begin with. As of now, the two templates are very simple. {{κ}} simply reproduces a small blue superscript of parameter 1 and {{Εδάφιο|1|6|}} does the same for parameter 2.

I recommend creating a template specifically for this text. That way, later on, if we decide to change the appearance or placement of the verse numbers, we can do that conveniently from one place, without affecting other texts. Like what they did with Πρότυπο:Ηρόδοτος.

(Plus, now it occurs to me that {{κ}} is categorized numerical rather than arithmetical.) Arbitan (συζήτηση) 17:32, 5 Ιουλίου 2022 (UTC)

Old Testament quotations, Uncial type replacement

Coptic letter forms? On page Σελίδα:The New Testament in the original Greek - 1881.djvu/107 for example, the third line contains mostly Coptic characters. Using Tesseract and grc script advanced option, transcribing gets us:

Ζήςετδι ὁ ἄνθρωπος, ἀλλ᾿ ἐπὶ παντὶ ῥήματι ἐκπο-

Manually copy-n-pasting from w:Coptic_alphabet#Unicode or better w:Coptic (Unicode block) would get:

ⲍⲏⲥⲉⲧⲁⲓ ⲟ ⲁⲛⲑⲣⲱⲡⲟⲥ, ⲁⲗⲗ΄ ⲉⲡⲓ ⲡⲁⲛⲧⲓ ⲣⲏⲙⲁⲧⲓ ⲉⲕⲡⲟ-

but these are missing the accents/breath marks so evident in the text.

There must be a reason that the author switches between Greek and Coptic characters. If we do not reproduce the Coptic letters, what damage are we doing to the text? Shenme (συζήτηση) 05:21, 14 Οκτωβρίου 2021 (UTC)

There is this note on page xc:

Uncial type is employed for quotations from the Old Testament, including phrases borrowed from some one place or a number of places.

See w:Uncial script and the third line of File:Evolution of minuscule.svg. I suppose these are the non-Greek characters that are being seen. See also w:Greek minuscule

Perhaps to reproduce the distinction - to mark off Old Testament text - we could instead enclose that text in a template that colors the background? Shenme (συζήτηση) 05:50, 14 Οκτωβρίου 2021 (UTC)

Please see page 107 for an example of marking the previously Uncial type text. We need _something_ to show where the OT quotations were. Text color, background color, borders, colors, font-size - all these are possible if we just mark the old Uncial type text with some template. Shenme (συζήτηση) 12:29, 24 Οκτωβρίου 2021 (UTC)

The uncials are essentially a different font. I would suggest using a typeface template, like how the English Wikisource handles blackletter, monospace, etc. See Template:blackletter on enwikisource for an example. Behind the scenes in HTML it assigns a span class to the text and tells it what font and alternate fonts to use. I could create a template {{στρογγυλόσχημη|}} (with an alias of {{uncial|}}) to get things started. To begin with it could show a serif font or a different color or something. Then later, that can be changed if a suitable webfont equivalent for uncial can be found. Arbitan (συζήτηση) 19:16, 5 Ιουλίου 2022 (UTC)

Nevermind, I just saw that you already did this (Πρότυπο:NTOGq). Arbitan (συζήτηση) 22:29, 5 Ιουλίου 2022 (UTC)

Better scans

The scan we have for this project is bad/terrible/dreadful/bad. There are certainly now scans better than in 2008. I've gone through _some_ of Internet Archive's collection to try to find 1) a matching edition, 2) close to our scan's publishing date. Here are some of my notes:

NTOG
    Cambridge
    1881  Cambridge and London   MacMillan and Co.
                first edition?  May?
              "The Introduction and Appendix will very shortly
               be published in a separate volume."
        Greek text first, then Notes start IA p. 541
        Notes in margins (p. 5)
        good quality
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentinor1881west/page/n8/mode/1up

NTOG
    1881  Cambridge and London  MacMillan and Co.
                first edition?  May?
        Greek text first, then Notes start IA p. 629
        Notes in margins (p. 5)
        Not the best
          https://archive.org/details/newtestament00hortgoog

NTOG
    1890  Cambridge and London    MacMillan and Co.
        Greek text first, then Notes start IA p. 541
        printed May 1881, reprinted Dec 1881, Aug 1890
          !! so this might be straight copy of May 1881, the first edition?
        Notes in margins (p. 5)
        not good quality
          https://archive.org/details/dli.granth.89881/page/5/mode/1up


>>>>>>>>WS scan<<<<<<<<
NTOG
    American Edition
    1881  New York    Harper & Brothers
        TOC, Introduction to American Edition (Schaff), TOC of Introduction  pp. 90
        then Greek text, then introduction on p. 541 /640
            "Library University of California Santa Barbara - Mrs. MacKinley Helm"
        Notes in margins (p. 5)
        Terrible quality

NTOG
    American edition
    1882  New York    Harper & Brothers
        TOC, Introduction to American Edition (Schaff), TOC of Introduction
        then Greek text, then introduction on  IA p. 541
        Notes in margins (p. 5)
        Good! quality
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentingr0000unse/page/n6/mode/1up


NTOG
    American Edition
    1882  New York    Harper & Brothers
        Publishers' Note
        Revised English Version page-by-page with W&H's Greek
          reordering, transposition 
        Introduction to American Edition (Schaff)   ciii pages
        Notes in margins (p. 5)
        'okay' quality
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentino00west/page/n91/mode/2up

NTOG
    American Edition
    1882  New York  Harper & Brothers
        Publishers' Note
        Revised English Version page-by-page with W&H's Greek
          reordering, transposition 
        Introduction to American Edition (Schaff)   ciii pages
        Notes in margins (p. 5)
        okay quality
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentinor00westrich/mode/2up

NTOG
    Cambridge   First Edition 1885    Reprinted 1887, 1889, 1891
    1891  Cambridge and London  New York  MacMillan and Co
        Notes as footnotes (p. 5)
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentinor00west_1/page/n6/mode/1up


NTOG
1892  Cambridge and London  MacMillan and Co.
        TOC/introduction follows all of the Greek text      IA p.541
        Notes as footnotes (p. 5)
        good quality
      "This edition ... reproduced from a larger edition published
       in 1881 with an accompanying volume containing an Introduction..."
    Attached
      Greek-English Lexicon  (Hickie)   pp. 214 (?)         IA p.627
    1893  New York  MacMillan and Co.
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentinor00west_0/page/n5/mode/1up

NTOG
    missing forematter, starts with first Greek page, 
        TOC/introduction follows all of the Greek text
        Notes as footnotes (p. 5)
        good quality
      "This edition ... reproduced from a larger edition published
       in 1881 with an accompanying volume containing an Introduction
       and an Appendix of Notes ... The second and corrected impression
       of the larger edition of the text, issued in December 1881, 
       is here followed. Additional simplicity has been gained by
       removing all strictly alternative marginal readings from the
       margin to the foot of the page, and transferring to the end of
       the volume all such rejected readings ...  
    Attached
      Greek-English Lexicon  (Hickie)   pp. 214 (?)
    1915  The MacMillan Company   1893, 1894, 1896,..., 1915 Sept.
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentinor00west_2

NTOG
    1925  New York  The MacMillan Company
        TOC/introduction follows all of the Greek text      IA p.541
        Notes as footnotes (p. 5)
        good+ quality
    Attached
      Greek-English Lexicon  (Hickie)   pp. 214 (?)         IA p.629
    1925  The MacMillan Company   1893, 1894, 1896,..., 1915 Sept...., 1917 Feb
          https://archive.org/details/newtestamentinth027928mbp/page/n628/mode/1up


Pasted-in review from somewhere:
  "The second issue of W&H's ... in December 1881, is distinguished from the
  first by a trnasfer of the uqotations from the Old Testment to the text-volume,
  and by the printer's name at the end of the volume.  It also differs from the
  first by having its verse-numbers conformed to the original division of 
  Robert Stephen of 1551.  The same division also appears in their school edition,
  which is nearly ready.  The these matters the English edition differs from
  the American."

American edition intro
  "The seventeenth day of May, 1881, marks an epoch ..."

As far as I have gotten, it looks like this one is the best fit with our scan:

https://archive.org/details/newtestamentingr0000unse/page/n6/mode/1up

It is very dark, but the markings are clear. Shenme (συζήτηση) 01:57, 26 Οκτωβρίου 2021 (UTC)